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Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] This is the second tape in a series by Lance Lambert. Entitled life in the local church, part two B.
[00:00:11] How can we allow such a thing? But if there is no unconfessed sin, of course you're fit to participate. Whoever is fit to participate, may I ask, I'm not only through the righteousness of Christ.
[00:00:28] If you've put the garments of salvation upon. Of course you'll fit to participate.
[00:00:34] Get rid of that idea. Which is, I think it is not of grace. That you've somehow rather got to be qualified naturally by feeling or by some other way. Never. You are clothed with the righteousness of Christ, and you are fit to participate. What real difference will it make if I contribute or not?
[00:01:00] And one wonders, well, if I don't say anything, I'll go on anyway.
[00:01:06] Heavens won't cave in if I don't.
[00:01:12] There's a point here. It's a question of obedience.
[00:01:16] And you have failed to understand that if God has given you something that should be shared. It is a question of obedience.
[00:01:25] No question whether it's a small contribution and you feel insignificant. The fact is, if God has given you something, you must obey him and you must share it. That's one thing. Second thing is this. It is part of fullness. What a sad thing it would be if we only had just one or two great people taking part with great spiritual character. We all know what it's like after a while to feel that there's no fresh air.
[00:01:51] We love them. But isn't it wonderful when. When some newborn babe opens their mouth and says something? Everyone says, amen.
[00:01:59] They may have used all the wrong words, put it all the wrong way around. But everyone said, wasn't that lovely?
[00:02:05] It's a breath of fresh air. Just like a baby being born in a family. Breath of fresh air blows through the whole thing.
[00:02:12] Everyone starts to get excited and sort of take interest.
[00:02:17] And I think it's also a question of growth. You see, if you do not give what you've got, you will not grow.
[00:02:24] Now, of course, people will say, yes, but that's not to do with the open time, is it? No, it's to do with everything. But I'll tell you this. If you are not giving in the open time what you've got. I'm pretty sure you're not giving it anywhere else.
[00:02:37] People hide in this kind of thing. They sort of say, oh, must be outside. Must be outside. No, but the point is this. It must be outside and in the gathering. Why? We go on the next question. How do I know what to contribute, whether it's just for me or for others, too. Whether in fact it's of the Lord.
[00:02:57] Now, that isn't an easy question.
[00:03:00] I think I've already tried to answer it in what I've said. You see, the fact of the matter is this, that there is no quick shortcut to knowing.
[00:03:10] How do I know what to contribute? Whether it's for me, God has given me this thought for myself, or for. I think that we've just got to know ourselves when God has given us something for others. Now, you may have to make a mistake or two.
[00:03:27] Don't worry about it. You'll learn by the mistake you make.
[00:03:31] It's as simple as that.
[00:03:34] I think that there is only one answer to this question. That is experience, no other answer. And what do I mean by experience? You must experience the leading of the Holy Spirit and learn to distinguish between what he gives for you and what he's giving to you. And that is also for others. And the next question, when I have a contra. How do I know when to contribute? I may feel I ought to, but how do I get in when there are so many people taking part? Well, now, I fear that often these folk who say this about getting in, really, I think it's a matter of nerves, very largely. But I know once or twice someone's got something and we've had a gap, silence. And they haven't contributed what they've got. And I thought, why don't they. I'm sure that. That I happen to know what it is. I'm sure that the Lord. Now they don't. And afterwards they say to you blithely, I couldn't get in.
[00:04:38] What are they talking about? We sat in silence for about half a minute.
[00:04:45] His nerves really very largely. Again, I think we have to know, again the leading of the Holy Spirit. And we can only get to know this by experience.
[00:04:57] I do sometimes think that we are. This is just another point, but I do think sometimes we are afraid of silence.
[00:05:08] There's nothing more wonderful than a real and good silence, a living silence. And I don't think we should be afraid sometimes of just being quiet can be very, very wonderful. And not just feel that we've got to fill up every single moment with the human voice.
[00:05:26] Nevertheless, on this other matter, I must say, how do I know when to contribute? I think all this goes back to our relationship with the Lord. And it's a question of experience. And the only way you can get experience is through training, really. You exercise. It's the only way there's no other way here. And so I must say that I think that's the only real answer to that question.
[00:05:53] When I have a contribution which I feel is for the time, but it seems to be contrary to the way things are moving. What should I do then?
[00:06:05] Well, again, I would say here that if you've got a contribution which does really seem to be completely out of line with the way the Holy Spirit's going, I question whether it is for that time. Now, sometimes the Lord is dealing with us in a particular way and giving us something, and it's very alive with us. And at that time it is very hard sometimes for us to feel that it is not for this time. But here is, I think, a matter of discipline. Generally, if the Holy Spirit really is leading along another way, either the whole thing is wrong and you are right and everyone else is wrong, and that's a possibility, or your contribution really isn't for this time, I would certainly be a little careful of contributing it. How do you overcome the fear of man?
[00:06:55] Good question.
[00:06:57] I think this goes to a root of a tremendous amount of our inhibition. How do I overcome the fear of man? There are only three things I think we can say.
[00:07:09] The first is humility.
[00:07:12] Now, you didn't expect that. But the way you overcome the fear of man is by genuine humility.
[00:07:20] The root of much of our fear is really the fear of losing our face before others.
[00:07:28] We don't fear people so much if we don't mind them knowing just where we stand. But we are terribly afraid of what people think.
[00:07:38] And so often our fear basically is a fear that if I say something and it's proved to be wrong, everyone will see it.
[00:07:49] Now, part of fellowship is to expose yourself to one another. And that's a very hard thing.
[00:07:55] And that's why I say that one of the keys to overcoming the fear of man is genuine humility.
[00:08:06] In other words, I'm prepared and ready to expose myself so that people see me just as where I stand spiritually. And secondly, I am ready to be corrected if I'm wrong and not go all funny and get bitter and upset and argumentative.
[00:08:24] And thirdly, I'm ready to learn.
[00:08:31] Now, there are the two things, of course, which obviously are the key to overcoming fear of man is the cross and the spirit.
[00:08:40] The cross removes ourselves. And that's, as I've said, our great problem.
[00:08:45] And the Holy Spirit gives us the power to exercise what is of God in us.
[00:08:52] And that's the only way you can overcome the fear of man. On the one hand, let the. The work of the cross undercut all that which so longs to be right, and so longs to have glory, and so longs for everyone to think well of it, and so longs for a reputation, undercut the whole thing. On the other hand, had the Holy Spirit come upon us in such a way that we can contribute what we have, that is, of God.
[00:09:18] One other point on this. There are those cases of fear which are, in fact, genuine cases of fear of people. It's not pride that lies at the root of it, but genuine case of fear.
[00:09:32] Sometimes we need the help of the church in this way, the ministry of the church in this way, for deliverance, and in other cases, we need to take a step. I think in all cases, we need to take a step in faith.
[00:09:47] Sometimes we have to open our mouths, and when we open our mouth, the Lord comes in.
[00:09:53] Many people have found that in prayer, haven't they, that the only way through is to deliberately open their mouth and pray. And then the Lord comes in and that fear of man is overcome. Sometimes you have to do it every time, but the Lord's with you each time, and the contribution you make is of value just because it's cost you something.
[00:10:13] Sometimes the Lord is leading us in worship along a line, for example, the awesomeness of God. Is it right to start on a new theme, such as, for instance, the victory of Christ?
[00:10:26] That's a good question.
[00:10:28] Suppose we have a time and the Holy Spirit has been leading us in our hymns and contributions and the awesomeness and greatness of God. Now, is it right for someone to turn us right off onto another line? Well, of course, we can only say, is it the Lord?
[00:10:46] Is it really the Lord? And is this new phase something that really is a development from the old?
[00:10:54] It is sad, I must say this, when people just suddenly get up and give something which has no bearing at all to anything that's gone before, and often very little bearing to anything that goes after there. I think we have got to be very careful.
[00:11:15] How ready prepared should we be, or how spontaneous. Here's another good question. It's very interesting that one corinthians 1426 says each half, each half something's been given to them. On the other hand, there are some things which cannot be given beforehand.
[00:11:36] They are quite spontaneous. Tongue, for instance, purpose, other things, sudden revelation. I mean, these things are by their very nature spontaneous. And in this sense, I think we've got the two. We have, on the one hand, something which has come to us during the week during our life with God in our daily routine. How precious it is when someone gives us something that God has worked out in their life during that week and when it really has come out of experience with the Lord. There's nothing that can, that can ever really match something like that. On the other hand, how wonderful it is when the Lord prompts somebody and it's something which at that moment comes in. Never be afraid if suddenly a hymn comes to you during the time of giving it, if it really is the Lord. I think there has to be blending of these two things, that which comes from before and also the other. There are so many other questions. I don't know really what we should do about them.
[00:12:39] What to do when the time is in the doldrums or taken an unfortunate path and contribution has become very difficult until it is righted. To what extent does it depend on me or others?
[00:12:54] That's a good question. There are always times when an open town gets into what this person's called the dulldums, or taken an unfortunate path. Very beautifully and delicately phrased, it's taken an unfortunate path.
[00:13:12] Right. Well, in other words, it's right off the track. And what are we to do about it? What are we to do about it? Well, I think I've sought to answer that question already, that every one of us, from the youngest to the elders, should look to the Holy Spirit in faith that the Lord is going to get us right back.
[00:13:31] How much does it depend on me? I think it does depend on you very greatly. Every one of us. We must be really open to the Lord inwardly. That's the first thing. The second thing is sometimes we may have to move outwardly.
[00:13:46] Is it right to silence anybody in the open time? This is a question asked by two or three people. It obviously troubles them when one of us brothers shuts up somebody.
[00:13:56] But you see, there are times when we know things and when we have got to silence people.
[00:14:05] You see, this is the whole danger of the open time, is that people who have no conscience, who are not sensitive to the Lord, can live in sin and take part.
[00:14:17] When that happens, they have to be silenced. Now, in some cases, these people have been told beforehand that they're not to take part, and they do. They have to be silenced. It's not right because it's sin. And the responsibility of those who've got the oversight of the whole is to stop that kind of thing. Now, there are times, for instance, when something which is of another spirit comes in that must be stopped instantly.
[00:14:45] Otherwise, as soon as it comes in, darkness follows in its train. And we have found from experience that once something is really not just a person out of step, a red herring, but something which is real darkness. It's counterfeit. It must be stopped.
[00:15:03] Now, I have noticed in the country and all that's been happening over the country, that wherever things are strong, there have been brothers in the leadership who have not been afraid to stop anything that even remotely is beginning to go off the lines. In all those places. I could give you examples. There is strength, and where there has not been that this sentimental idea that everyone, you must never stop anyone because it's the Lord and so on, where that's happened, you've got all kinds of terrible things that have come in, and it's gone off the rails. I believe that it is part of the responsibility of elder brothers to do this, and I believe this is our security. Indeed, I would go so far as to say this may not mean much to everybody, that you can't have an open time without very strong corporate authority.
[00:15:56] Very. Now, this immediately brings us to another question. Why should the brothers meet beforehand on a Sunday morning? Why can't the Holy Spirit lead us anyway in the time? For exactly the same reason. This time for the brothers, by the way, is open to every brother in the company who wishes to come.
[00:16:14] 1015, you may not know that. We don't ask anybody. It's open to all to come to that time for fellowship in prayer and so on about the time. Now, our thought is this.
[00:16:28] The tragedy of the open time in Brethrenism is that it is never prayed for.
[00:16:35] And that's why a terrible death has come over so much throughout the country of what was once living.
[00:16:44] In the old days, there were men with the authority and responsibility who prayed.
[00:16:49] And you see, the open time requires even more prayer than the lead time.
[00:16:58] If you all knew exactly what often has to go on behind the scenes for an open time, enclosing things in the name of the Lord and opening things in the name of the Lord, you'll be very surprised. And this is why we are very, very interested in people who tell us that they find a restraint on them. They can't contribute. We're very glad for it, because, you see, we always pray for this restraint of anything that's not of God. So we're very interested when people who don't know anything about this say to us, I suppose no one will say it anymore, but when people have said to us in the past, oh, I felt something in the atmosphere stopping something in there. Praise God. We've said it again and again, because every time we've had an open time, we've said, in the name of the Lord, we bind what is not of himself or what is not what is of himself, but not for this time. And we release what is of himself.
[00:17:46] And we're very glad for that. That's why I believe the Lord has kept us moving on with himself, step by step. I believe open times need very much prayer in the background and so on, for them to be healthy and go on. Well, now we've only got a few more questions. Perhaps I could take up the bigger one later.
[00:18:06] How should I contribute? Sometimes I may have a good contribution, but it's spoiled by being too long or not being explicit enough. But now, here again, I'm sorry, there is no answer to this. There's no quick answer. You've got to learn by experience.
[00:18:24] And this actually comes to a very good question after this. What should one do when you feel you should have contributed but haven't, and you feel very depressed? Praise God.
[00:18:40] Not you, but I praise God. You see, if you know you should have contributed and you really do feel depressed, that's a good sign. Now that is the discipline of the Holy Spirit. I'm not exercising it. No human being, the Holy Spirit exercising it. You feel bad. Of course you should feel bad. Of course you should feel bad. No, I'm not going to feel sorry for you. Like Margaret Barber when she had the watchman knee. You need to be cand.
[00:19:06] The fact of the matter is that, you see, when the Holy Spirit's told you to do something, you haven't done it. It's not our job to go round and sort of smother you with sort of affection and love. You should feel depressed. Good.
[00:19:20] You might learn.
[00:19:22] And the other side is, what should we do when we have contributed and afterwards we feel we shouldn't have done?
[00:19:31] And we feel. Praise God. I praise God because that means the Holy Spirit's got you in hand for the first time. I shouldn't have contributed. Now, just be careful here, because sometimes really sensitive souls, they really give something of the Lord or the enemy's day afterwards. And he gives them such a time.
[00:19:49] And that's another question that someone asked. Should we thank those that have contributed, especially if we know it's cost them something? I think sometimes we should. We don't want to put each other in a false position, but I do think it is an encouragement to one another. When someone has. And we just say, it was lovely to hear you. But don't do it. Don't. Whatever you do, do it. Do it sentimentally. So that when someone's put their foot in it, everyone goes, lovely to hear you this morning, dear. No, it's not true. It's not true. If someone has said something, you mustn't say, it was good to hear you. It's wrong. It's wrong. And the Holy Spirit will be angry. Because the Holy Spirit is not at all pleased about it. That was disobedience in the way that when you contributed and you shouldn't have done, that was disobedience. You've got to learn, you see. We have to learn by the chastening of God. He loves us. He scourges every son whom he receiveth. That's how it happens. We get a bit depressed afterwards. Well, the next time you'll learn a bit more. Perhaps you'll learn. One time you'll learn. Now, that was of God. Now, next time that happens, I'm going to go forward. And another time, when you've done something and you shouldn't have done, you'll feel afterwards, well, now I know, perhaps next time, when it seemed to be all a lovely feeling and I did it and it was wrong. I think this is a point to remember now. A question that two or three people have brought up, which is a very good one, is, shouldn't there be silence at the Lord's table?
[00:21:14] Shouldn't there be silence at the Lord's table? I must say that I think that sometimes there is a little too much contribution at the Lord's table.
[00:21:25] Now, let's get this right.
[00:21:28] I don't think that we should say, oh, yes, we should have absolute silence at the Lord's table. Sometimes the right hymn is good. But one feels sometimes that people should have contributed some of the things earlier. And they've held back and held back and held back, and then suddenly they give it at last.
[00:21:45] Now, I must say that I think at the Lord's table, when we are receiving the bread and the wine, that there are times when it's lovely just to be quiet.
[00:21:56] Some people have said, should we praise the Lord at such a time? Well, I can only say that many people who have come amongst us, one of the things that's blessed them is the way people have worshipped the Lord at the actual receiving of the bread and wine. So what do you say about this? I don't know. I think, again, it has to be under the government of the Holy Spirit. I'm sure that you can't say no, we should always be in absolute silence when we take the bread and the wine. On the other hand, I must say that I sometimes wonder whether all the contribution we have at that point is really right.
[00:22:28] I think we need to be very much more sensitive in this matter. Well, I think that's really all.
[00:22:37] Perhaps we've answered some of these others already. Sometimes one feels very cold and unable to participate until the meeting is advanced. Should one ignore that sense of deadness and contribute or not? Well, now, this again is a good question. What I would say first is this. If someone feels very cold and unable to participate, had they given any time before the time?
[00:23:08] I sometimes wonder whether some people rush in and the Holy Spirit's angry. Now, I know people are going to say, oh, but we're not condemned. The Holy Spirit doesn't condemn us. No, but it says, quench not the spirit, grieve not the spirit. Sometimes when we rush into the Lord's table at the last moment, sit all other times and open times, don't you think the Holy Spirit gets grieved?
[00:23:29] So thinks, do they even remotely appreciate what it cost? The Lord Jesus had any idea at all what it means for them just to be able to come like this?
[00:23:43] Don't you think the holy spirit sometimes gets grieved in this way? And then a coldness comes, and for a long time we feel a coldness and a deadness, which only as time goes on, do we overcome.
[00:23:56] I must say that. On the other hand, I must say the exact opposite as well. There are times when the enemy injects a kind of spiritual cocaine into people. He sort of anesthetizes them, and you can come in and you can just feel out of sorts and cold and everything else, and there you've got to stand against it. And you'll find that if you do and you deliberately praise the Lord in your own heart and worship him, you'll find that it'll all shift.
[00:24:24] One other thing. Musical instruments. Someone says, if we are really praising the Lord, why shouldn't we be able to bring all our musical instruments as well?
[00:24:39] Now, this again is a good question. Someone wants to know about their tambourine and so on. Can they bring their tambourine? They say, well, if we're really worshipping. Now, here is a point which goes to the root of all fellowship. You see, we don't do some things because we know that it upsets others.
[00:25:02] That's all.
[00:25:04] And when we know that there are those who, perhaps from a different type of background, find a tambourine rather hard at the Lord's table to put up with. I think it is lum. I think it is lum not to use the tambourine. Now someone will say, well, shouldn't the other person get through?
[00:25:24] Leave me. When we were in Egypt, we had a man who blew his cornet at all times.
[00:25:32] Prayer meeting, evangelistic meeting and the Lord's table. I remember in the end, we had fellow after fellow come to me and say, oh, couldn't we do something about brother so and so's cornet?
[00:25:45] And there was so much ill feeling, especially in the ref boys, because they happened to be tended to be of another class to the army boys. And the army boys.
[00:26:02] The army boys, they didn't mind it so much. But the. But the RAF boys, they were very much against this corner. And we found it very difficult, all the boys getting saved. They said, I can't bear that corner. I can't bear it. But the man. I must say this, the man played it beautifully. Now, we had an lram who played the piano, and she was so fed up with the cornet that she was deaf. She used to take out her deaf aid when she played, when she couldn't hear the cornet. So you can understand the kind of situation that was developing amongst. Concerning the oneness of all the believers. Finally, the boys came to me and I said, look, I think we should have a time of prayer about this matter. And we had a time of prayer, and never forget it, where we were laying out our hearts, praying that the Lord would do something about brother so and so's cornet. And in the end, I thought, well, the best thing is now to gather up all this prayer. And I said, oh, lord, we take the cornet out of brother so and so's hands, and we put it into thine. And one of the brothers said, oh, no.
[00:27:15] Apart from the funniness of it, the fact of the matter was, you see, that in a way, it would have been love for that dear brother to have at least understood. Although people approached him and told him he wouldn't have it, this was something God had given him to do, and he was going to do it.
[00:27:33] Now, I think that this governs musical instruments. My own feeling is that, well, when we had so many of different backgrounds and we've got to be, to a certain extent, careful of not just making it difficult for others to really worship the Lord. On the other hand, I really wish with all my heart that sometimes in our after times, we couldn't have such a time where everyone can bring their tambourines, their flutes, everything else, and all make a joyful noise to the Lord. Why not? Why not? Well, all that. Think about it. Those of you who are responsible for the afternoon, or for that matter, now and again on a Saturday evening. I think we on a Saturday evening are probably more able to put up with it than a Sunday morning. But you see, I think that this question may be of a light hearted question, but it goes to the root of fellowship. Why do we not take strong lines on certain things? Because we don't believe in dividing the unity, the oneness of Christ. We believe in certain things and are prepared to die for them, but we are not going to use those things to produce a denominational group.
[00:28:40] We want to see the church of God built up and in the same way we don't want to offend the susceptibilities of those in the matter of music either in worshipping the Lord. Well, last question. What to do, then, when I feel that those with a special responsibility for a time, that is, I suppose the brothers have taken it along a line that I cannot go along with, how can I contribute in such a situation?
[00:29:15] Another quite good question. Do you feel that the brothers in charge are sort of dictating? First of all, I would say this, that really in an open time, I don't think that the brothers, the elder brothers or other brothers in leadership should in fact impose their own feeling in such a way upon the time.
[00:29:39] Then, on the other hand, I must say this, that if it's a result of much prayer of brethren who really do want the Lord's mind and have come to the conclusion, for instance, on a Sunday morning, that this is the opening, I wonder if the person concerned is right.
[00:29:56] It is amazing how we can get ourselves into a false position and feel that somehow or other everyone else is wrong and we are right. I don't know. I can only say, well, I would be myself a little careful. On the other hand, I think it is perfectly possible for those elder brothers, being such poor creatures, to do the wrong thing.
[00:30:25] There are times, and in which case I think we all have to show much love and consideration. Remembering the word of Wesley, there but for the grace of God go I.
[00:30:36] And I think that if we show much love and consideration in this way, the Lord can get us all back. Right. Why make it a question of division unless it's a very big thing? Now, of course, for this we're not dealing with that here. Of course we're not dealing with some very major thing in which brothers have done something wrong. Or taking a course which is wrong. Then we should speak up. Go and see them speak up. But we're talking about an open time.
[00:30:58] Generally speaking, the only part they would have to play is in the very beginning, the opening. And I would have thought that we ought to be able to overcome that. Well, now, there's a lot of things there. A lot of practical things and so on. I expect you've got a lot more questions. I've already been given a lot more out of last night.
[00:31:22] But when we're going to answer them all, I don't know. But I think if we all look to God to help us. He'll do just that. And as we deal with some of these more practical matters. Later in the week. He'll help us again further. There we shall be dealing with prayer on Thursday. Tomorrow evening. Still for brothers talk about ministry of the word and so on. Open to every brother. So do come along to that time tomorrow evening. Same time tomorrow evening, Thursday. We should be talking about prayer.
[00:31:55] Shall we pray?
[00:32:02] Dear Lord, we do want all our gatherings. To glorify thee, whatever they are. And how we praise thee, Lord, for all that thou hast given us in thy son.
[00:32:16] We pray, Lord, together. That our open times, as we call them. May, Lord be really times of glory, times of real testimony, Lord, to thy leadership times, Lord, when we know something of thyself. Leading us. And drawing us out in one great symphony.
[00:32:43] Of worship and praise and fellowship before thee, o Lord, we commit this time to thee. Many matters have been raised, many things have been said. We cannot retain it all. But we pray that thou, Lord, write indelibly in our hearts, in our spirits what should be retained. We ask it in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Amen.
